How Talvi’s Career Got A Jolt Of Positive Excitement From Interactive Storytelling

TRANSCRIPTION

Anna:
Hello, everybody. Thank you so much for joining me. This is Anna Sabramowicz, and today I have a special guest. She's one of my successful students from the accelerator program, Talvi [inaudible 00:00:12]. How are you, Talvi?

Talvi:
Hi, I'm good. Thank you very much.

Anna:
How did I say your last name? Was it proper?

Talvi:
It was a perfect pronunciation. So, I did not see this actually coming. So I was like, "Ooh."

Anna:
I was like, how do you... Yes, I practiced a little bit. So, one of the things that I really wanted you guys to get from this interview that we're going to begin very shortly is Talvi is one of those people who is a one person rockstar department. Basically I call those developers soup to nuts. She goes from basically inception, just coming up with the ideas, doing all the research, talking to all the people, all the way to build and launch and test. So, no small feat. And so, today what I really wanted to focus on is her experience designing, her experience talking to people, some of the challenges that she faced, some of the lessons that she's learned, and maybe some inspiration that you guys can get from her journey to begin your own. And also any lessons that she wants to share with us as far as advice, basically for anybody getting started with this. Because I think it's a little different than what your usual projects there. So, all right, Talvi. Tell me who's your target learner? What you're trying to achieve? What do you do?

Talvi:
Right. So, I am taking care of the customer service team in our company, and the main learner is dealing then on daily basis with the customers over the phone. And so, my work is in between finding how to get the procedures over. But when we talk about customer service. It's not only about the procedures, but it's also the interaction between people, and that's where the scenario based learning came in, and that's, I think how I kind of looked up for you, and yeah [crosstalk 00:02:11]. Actually, I think that really led me to you. I started to look into how to bring in soft skills, especially when you talk about customer service, it's not black and white that you have one procedure, but the conversation can go multiple ways. And that's where I was looking, "Okay, so how to bring a little bit behavior change in the learning, and yeah, that's again, how it went.

Anna:
When you said you were trying to solve some kind of problem because you're already in charge of training.

Talvi:
Yes.

Anna:
What's the gap you perceived? What was getting in the way?

Talvi:
Yeah. So, we had... how to say it. It's actually now I've learned that it's quite a typical gap what we are talking about here, and that is that we have a training, and then we have the real life. And doing the training we provide a lot of information because of course we want to prepare them for everything. And then, for the learner, I said, "Okay, I've had this training. Now for three weeks, I got so much information, but actually I have no idea how to apply this information or what to do with this information." And therefore there was this gap between the real life where you have to make the decisions, and then all this information that was given in the training. And that was really the gap that I was looking at, okay, so how to bring in the real life more into training. So, to build the confidence. So, before I really start to do customer service, I know at least that I'm able to make some decisions or I'm able to use the information I learned and apply this on my job.

Anna:
Okay. So, how did you find out about me? How did you find out about this program? What was your gateway?

Talvi:
Actually, it's quite a... Yes. So, I found you on YouTube, and I still remember. It was quite a funny story. So I find you on YouTube, and then I saw that, oh, you're active also in LinkedIn. So I started to look to both channels and I remember it was beginning of this year when you sent me then like, "Hey, I've seen your name around." Or you said, "Okay, let's connect." And for me it was like, "Whoa, this is so cool." I remember I came to work and I was like, "Oh, I'm feeling like a teenager." You know, the idol is reaching out to you. And then I was having a proper laugh with my colleague.

Talvi:
I think that's... I remember as well. And one of the first things that I found from you was the podcast. and you were talking about subject matter experts and how to deal with them. And that was... I was like, "Oh, I can relate to this." And then from there I was like, "Okay, what else do you have?" And then I was like, "Oh, tell me more about the scenario things you're doing here." And then from the moment we were connected in LinkedIn I saw you posted that you're going to do this training or cohort. And that I like, "Okay, it's getting quite interesting." I think it's just like one step really led to another one.

Anna:
Over time, so that's interesting that the first thing that really got you interested was working with subject matter experts, because-

Talvi:
I think that was because I'm creating content, and that was also like, well, we can have challenges with subject matter experts, and you have.... I think it's just so common thing as well. I've been hearing this quite a lot that there's a one thing what they're saying, "Oh, we need this and this and this." And then it's like, "Oh, it doesn't make sense." Or do we really need all of this in this training? So, these are the challenges, and if you have a dominating person, then it's like, you have the personalities, the context, and then yeah. And I was like, "Okay, YouTube help me. What can I do here?"

Anna:
That's awesome. Okay. Now, let's talk about you working through the program because I think one of the cool things is that you... I think it's a cool trait to have is you're one of those people that when you see something, and you're told to do it, even if you don't believe in it all the way you'll be like, "Okay, I'll try that." And that's awesome. And that's absolutely awesome because as far as I'm concerned this is new for a lot of people. So, talk to me through the program. When you got started what did you first learn that you thought were like, "Okay, this is different," or what surprised you about what we were going through in those six weeks?

Talvi:
Okay. What was interesting for me was that every time when we had this online session and you went through information I was like, "Oh yes, I understand. Yes. Makes sense." But then when it came to the point that you have to apply it, and then I was like, "How I'm going to do this?" And I think that was actually there the main challenge, and maybe not this as well, then I came back to kind of like, "Hey, I'm not quite sure. The last time last week you spoke about this, but what do you actually mean about it?" So, it's kind of like coming to do it, and also it is really... It's a storytelling, and it's a different approach. I think I fell into the loophole as well. I just couldn't figure out what are the main points to put in the story.

Talvi:
So, not to put everything in, but the key points. I think that was my struggle as well in the beginning too. How I'm going to do it. So, to bring my context then. I know that my learners are working over the phone. Then my first idea was I'm going to just make a scenario and create one phone call, but then the next trap was that I literally made every silly decision into decision, which just doesn't make sense. And then it's just tiring the brain capacity on maybe not so valuable points. And that's where the shift came. So, instead of having only one call as a scenario, I had the multiple calls, and then each call had two or three decisions only. So that was really a learning for me to get to that point or do you understand how to put this together.

Talvi:
And another thing, what was, I think definitely different was how to interview the practitioners. I think that's when you say, "I really wasn't sure how to do it." And that was a little bit postponing it like a bad student. Like, "Oh, I don't know how to do it. I'll put it on the side." And then I came to the point, I was like, "Okay, I'm missing a piece of information. I think for me to put it all together I have to do the interview." And it was really funny to do it the first time. At the same time, once I've done, or once I did the interviews, then I saw like, okay, it really is matching the storyline or it is bringing the story in. So, that was different.

Anna:
Cool. Good. So, yeah, it's interesting because I always talk about you're trying to get... You're talking to people who don't understand what you do and then you're trying to get them to tell you a story. And some of them don't know how to do it. I mean, when you start, you don't know how to do that, right? So, you're...

Talvi:
Learning as well. I know you gave some really good tips in terms of when doing the interviews that I tend to as well fill the silence, and that's the worst thing to do because then I will give my own thoughts. And that was really... I have to hold myself back. So, it was a little bit like learning also how to interview for this kind of content. So, it was not only scenario based learning, but even in a bigger picture.

Anna:
Cool. Yeah. It's funny because I think some people really try to avoid talking to subject matter experts because they don't have the skills. So, I'm glad that you brought that up because you have to practice, right?

Talvi:
It is. Yeah.

Anna:
Totally agree. So your story for your scenario, what are you trying to... You said behavior change. What's the behavior you want to change? What are you doing?

Talvi:
So, the behavior change. Well, one of the aim was to build the confidence or to give the learner the chance to make decisions, but then we have always a big thing. So when we are dealing with customers, am I focusing on the quality or am I focusing on my key performance indicator? So, the quantity, so I do have, or they learn as they need to meet the KPIs. And then their biggest challenge, especially in the beginning is to find the balance. So, what I'm going to focus on it, and the good thing about the customer service... Or not the good thing, but the interesting part is that it's not always black and white, that it's one answer and that's the right answer. And so, the [inaudible 00:11:28] we had was that quite many people that come to our field, they're more focusing on the customer surveys. But then the company's approach is more that, okay, the service needs to be there, but it's not the main focus point. That we need to also bear in mind the quantity.

Talvi:
In our field, we are dealing with flight tickets or in aviation, and sometimes we are not giving good news to the customer. So, therefore, straightaway the customer service element will go down, and you have to focus on the procedure. So, it was really to bring in the balance. So when the learner is going through the scenarios or the decisions that they will see also that it's not always black and white. Also, sometimes you might make the right decision, but it may not be the... It may not have a good outcome, even though it's the right decision. So, really to bring the confidence in that, okay, mistakes can happen. Not always we have only one size fits all that you might have this is okay, and this is also okay. Or all the options are not okay, but you have to go with them. So that was really... It was aimed to bring the confidence and to show that it's not always right or wrong. There are options in between, and yeah.

Anna:
So, you said confidence as far as just knowing that the two need to be in balance, and then just... Talk to me more about that.

Talvi:
Yeah, so perhaps [inaudible 00:13:05]. So, confidence in terms of making a decision. So, when I've done the decision, and I see the outcome, so out of the options I have I see the outcome, and I know it's not going to be a good outcome for the customer, but at the same time that's the only way we can deal with it. And put the context in this when you talk about flight tickets, they can be very restrictive. So meaning that it's non-refundable, no changes are possible. And at the same time, if the customer has paid a lot of money for it, it's not going to be good news from us. And for learner to say, "Okay, but it is only option from my side. I can't do anything better. I can only give the empathy, but that's it."

Talvi:
And to go through this, and another element what we have is that there can be also social pressure, so that you're new on the job. You have experts around. Everybody's very fast with the systems. And then there is this new starter who is still learning the systems. How to look up the flight tickets, or how is the aviation rules. What I need to apply, plus the customer service. So that's another element that I try to bring in is that you might have this super awesome team around, but everybody can make mistakes. Just to bring the human [inaudible 00:14:27] in that it's okay. Mistakes are okay. Learn from them. Be confident to make a decision, and turning and coming to the behavior change then some of the behavior, especially when we talk about customer service. And I think there's also culture differences that when we speak about customer service in North America, it's very high level, which again, is not the aim in my company or in our field.

Talvi:
So, it's more like, "Okay, we are customer service focused, but not on the level of what you would see in North America." And so, to bring this kind of cap as well that when people are starting they're like, "Okay, thank you so much." And this and this. And then it's kind of like, but that's not the strategy we have. And so, to bring the little bit shift here as well. So, it's really to that, yes, we are not forgetting the customers, but it's not the main focus. So that was the behavior change.

Anna:
That's very cool. It's interesting because I think that a lot of companies would love to be talking the language you're talking, Talvi, but they just don't know how to actually undo some of those norms that people come in with, and assumptions, I got to say.

Talvi:
Yeah. It's so interesting. Well, that's an adult learning as well. People come [inaudible 00:15:45] and they bring their, it worked out previously. I'm going to apply it here as well. But it not may fit with the culture or with the... I think this actually is very not with the culture, but business decisions, what the company has done.

Anna:
Yeah. No, it's well done. And gosh, I wish you guys could see, I got to experience Talvi's training that she designed, and I got to say you took what we showed you and then you just turned it up 10X because you added the contextual things from your workplace, and the activities you guys... Anyways, it's super awesome. Hopefully one day it just gets out to the world.

Talvi:
Thanks.

Anna:
So, okay. So, walk me through your process. Because you had some hanging... like delays and some things, but as far as your process, what did that look like? [crosstalk 00:16:39].

Talvi:
Okay. So, it took me, I think it's also good to know that it really took me some time. We started in March, didn't we?

Anna:
Yeah.

Talvi:
And now we are end of October. So, it's a good half a year. And so, when I started this, I had an idea that, okay, this what we could do. And then as we went by it changed a little bit, but then the... So, it took me some time to get the clear idea how to do it, or what's the storyline. Once I had that then I started to look, okay, what are the key problems that you'd be in the learning when people are making decisions? And that was quite interesting because then I did some research with my colleagues in our quality assurance team to see like, what are the main problems and what they come across.

Talvi:
So based on that research, I then made potential questions or decisions and the options I put there as well. It took me some time to find not this kind of silly that very obvious right answer, but a little bit like, okay, it can be this, it can be this, and it can be this. And all three could be potential options, but of course they may not have the best or the similar approach. So one of them is the right approach we want to have. And then the other ones are the consequences, what these options give or not what we, of course, once you have it. So, yeah. So, I did... I got the list of questions, and then it came to the point when I think you advised as well that, okay, test your questions with the learners and see how they perceive it.

Talvi:
So I took then two new starters and I tested the questions with them. And then I start then testing it. Then first approach was like, "Oh, this is easy." And so, I was a little bit concerned like, okay, so maybe the options I took are a little bit too straightforward, but then the best part was that once we finished the questions, and they started to look their answers, they were quite off. So meaning that they were not the ones that as a company we would like to have, or the behavior over the phone that we would like to have agents to do. But they went I would say with their own past experience what they think, what could sound good, or what would be the obvious answers, but not necessarily the approach we want to have.

Talvi:
So, that was a really good crown for me to see that, okay, I'm actually on the right track. It was just a little bit funny because then, of course, it's also like, "Oh, there's a really big gap that needs to be taken care of because these are my two new learners, and they are completely off-track when it comes to decision making." So that was a quite interesting one. And then from there we went to, we started to build, right? And actually, no, there were summer interviews as well. So, now it's been so long, so I'm like, "Okay, how was it again?"

Anna:
Yeah. But what's really cool is I think that you followed the process, and you didn't build anything until you-

Talvi:
Yap. I really-

Anna:
So, how did you find that? Were you itchy? Did you want to build?

Talvi:
I was. I think at that time, I think John was already building. I think that was a social pressure for me. I was like, "Oh my God, I'm not building anything." It's a creative process. It's messy. And it can be frustrating. Like, "Okay, I have no idea how I'm going to put this all together." And then at some point I was like, "Okay," I think there's a really nice saying, how to eat an elephant, bite by bite or piece by piece. And then I really took this approach. I was like, "Okay, I'm not going to overthink. I'm just going to go step by step." And actually in the end it all came together. So, it was I think maybe I put a little bit applying trust in you. I was like, "Okay, I'm just doing [inaudible 00:20:42]. I'm going to see how it's going to work out.

Anna:
Excellent. Yeah. Those questions, that's what I loved is that those questions that you were testing with your learners that was on paper, right? You just [crosstalk 00:20:55]-

Talvi:
Exactly. So, I had them in the same room and of course it was, they did not have all the context because once I got ready then the learner has the situation presented where the question comes up. And so, I say this, "Well, okay, I'm going to explain you what's the situation." And then once I went through the explanation I say, "Then now have a look on the question, I don't know, three." And then they read the question and I was like, "Okay, make a choice. What will be in your opinion the best approach?" That worked really well. And I must say for me, it really gave a confidence that, okay, I'm in the right track in terms of there is a problem. We have new learners. They are missing this approach. So, it needs to be put out there. Yeah.

Anna:
That's awesome. Yeah. So, then when you started building, how did that go? What was your major takeaway lesson as far as reflecting back on that process. [crosstalk 00:22:07] you were like, "Oh, I wish I did that differently."

Talvi:
Yes. So, I definitely made it harder than it had to be, or it could have been easier.

Anna:
Why do you say that? In what way?

Talvi:
Yeah. So, how I did, so when I started to develop, it took me some time as well to figure out the look. I think it comes a little bit like the design, the color of the backgrounds, how it is all coming together, and the layout. And then the biggest mistake here was then I started to... So, I used Articulate storyline, and instead of creating a template and reusing the template, I created every time a new slide with new options. So, it was painful. We were in touch as well. And I think you saw my pain. I was like, "It's going so long." So definitely advice here is to take the time and figure out the templates, and then go from there because otherwise it's painful. It really is.

Anna:
And it's easy to do templates because the scenarios are really a repeat of situation, questions.

Talvi:
Yeah.

Anna:
But I got to say that in the final product turned out... Are you proud of it?

Talvi:
I am. I'm very proud of it. There's no shame or no shyness here. It's kind of like, I did it, but it's also... It was quite interesting. So, in September, I was literally every day, I would say, good majority, 80% of my day, my focus was on building the content or putting it all together. So, I guess I spend too much time on it in terms of I didn't see anything else anymore. And then end of September, I went for holiday, so I was a little bit away. And then I had another travels in between. So, literally it was three or four weeks I didn't see that project. And then now this week I returned and I was like, "Oh, it looks good." So it's nice to have it, this pride that I created something I'm happy about it. And of course, I'm still working on some of the final feedbacks to get it as smooth as possible, but yeah, I'm very happy about it. And I do think that I made it much bigger than it was supposed to be.

Talvi:
So, that's another thing. So I really struggled to... I think in the beginning the creative part was very messy because I didn't know how to bring it all together. And then suddenly it was so big. And then when I was producing it and I was like, "Oh God." So it's been ups and downs. And then some days I was super motivated. I was like, "Oh, exactly, I know how to get on with the project. And then of course some days I was like, "Oh God." And I think during the weeks as well when we had the sessions, it was kind of like, I was like, "Okay, I think I got it." And then maybe two weeks later, I was like, "Ah, now I got it, actually." So, it was good to be in the learner's shoes for a while and feel the struggle.

Anna:
Did you find the sessions helpful?

Talvi:
They were. And what helped me was I think I took quite learners' approach. I even took it with me. So, I made a notebook, and I took actually notes, just to structure for myself the process. And also, later on that I could redo it again. So, if I'm going to start with a new project that I have the steps. So, I really tried to make a structure for myself. And then what really helped was like I say, usually when we had the session, I was like, "Yeah, it makes sense." Took my notes.

Talvi:
And then when I started to actually do things, I was a little bit like, "Ooh, what is happening? How can I do it?" But the sessions were recorded so I could go back. And that was quite helpful as well. And it's really, I think the combination, yeah, looking back at the recordings, my own notes. And well, quite often, if there were some questions you were always there. So we could either talk them through in the next session before we start with the new content. So I think it all came together in the end. I would say that the support was always there. And in that sense, I think it was really good. And then it really came to the point, okay, now create something or put it all into practice.

Anna:
Yeah. I think that's one of the things that I noticed is that you very much applied every single week, and every single week you came back saying, "I tried this. I applied." It hit reality, your reality. And then now you have to adjust and you're saying, "Anna, this isn't working the way you said it would." Or this is my context, and I think a lot of times we get a lot of guides and stuff, but even in the interview you have to use your own context, and how do you add that, right?

Talvi:
Yeah. I think that was also one of their challenges. Exactly, how to take this and curate into my context. So, it was a challenge on its own. At the same time if I think back now it was more enjoyable challenge or it was quite interesting as well because I remember we spoke about it like, well, it's a storytelling. And I felt in some point, I'm really writing a script here. It's not like the e-learning I've done so far. So, mainly what I've done so far is in the procedure. So it's kind of like a different approach. And so it was interesting and challenging to try a different approach. And of course, different is not always the easiest. That's where the challenge comes in. But all in all, if I think about it back, then I think majority time it was a positive and excitement, and not crying in the corner, like, "Oh, how can I do this?"

Anna:
And it's funny because I think those are... I remember I was talking about this, how this is a different skill set that, when was the last time you wrote a story?

Talvi:
Exactly. Yeah. And I remember myself thinking of it like, "Oh my God, this is completely out of my normal life, or normal approach." When's the last time I did this? And it's a little bit like you create the story, you create dialogues. And it's like, I kept quite like a creative. I was like, "Okay, I'm going to think of the characters. This is this character. What's his name? How he's going to look like, and what's the characters approach." And it's different. It's not like... For me, it's not the e-learning I've done before.

Anna:
I got to say, even for me, and I'm not even the learner, but because you created these characters and they are their own, you really thought that through. It makes it very engaging. You're in it, right? It's super [crosstalk 00:29:41]-

Talvi:
It is good.

Anna:
And I think that's one of the other things that we picked up because Ryan my partner also looked at it because he's obviously super proud is just how much he's like, "She had so much fun with this." You can tell you put yourself in the project. And that's amazing because I think those things last, they last. [crosstalk 00:30:04].

Talvi:
I can say here as well that Ryan was the one who gave me the tip that, "Hey, what are you doing with your templates?" I remember you say it as well, sometimes it's like you talk it through and then it's like, "Yeah, it's very good what you're telling me. Yeah, of course." And then I start to do it. Nope. I'm going to create every slide separately, and I spend three hours on creating a slide. I think then I had the chat with the Ryan then that was when... then it dropped that, okay. What I've been doing, I could make it easier, and that was a really... I think that was a step... Again, learning curve for me, and step ahead that, okay. Like the last part of the project that went much faster than the beginning part. So, yeah, but it was fun creating and the dialogues. And yesterday I asked my partners to do it as well because he's not in the business, he's not in the industry. And for him it was quite entertaining. So, I think that's also good.

Anna:
Yeah. That's great. Because imagine... I got to be honest. Imagine most e-learning out there and you never want to be like, "Hey, do you want to go through this PowerPoint online?" Nobody wants to read your bullets.

Talvi:
Yeah, I have... yeah.

Anna:
This is an experience, right?

Talvi:
That's actually so true. I have my free time, and then someone is asking like, "Hey, I created the e-learning on PowerPoint. Do you want to go through it?"

Anna:
Did you see my bullets fly in?.

Talvi:
Oh, God. Yeah. That's actually so true. It's true.

Anna:
It's cool because you're like, "Hey, step into my world for a bit and pretend you're somebody else."

Talvi:
Yeah. Then he was like, "Oh, this is really cool. So how long did you do it?" And I was like, "Since March." And it's like, "Oh, God." That was quite also eye-opening. It takes time to create it.

Anna:
Okay. So, as far as, if you could give advice to new students, say they're coming in, what's your advice? Do you have any details?

Talvi:
Patience. I would say, well, it sounds a little bit funny because we are always taught to question everything. That's the education system, like question and question. But I must say sometimes it's perhaps good to go a little bit like a blind faith that, okay, I'll see where it's going to take me, and you really like to take it step by step because it can be overwhelming to start a thing that... I think if I would have thought of on the first day that what I have to for this project, it would have freaked me out because it was... Yeah, it really is quite a big project to put together, especially if you're starting from zero, and there's no previous experience.

Talvi:
So, therefore, I think it can be quite terrifying. So to really zoom in or just to focus on the small steps in the beginning and then it just comes gradually. It falls together. So, I think that's kind of, I would, yeah, take it, no pressure. It's like it comes together slowly, slowly, but it will come together. So perhaps that would be the advice because I know myself that I can be very... I can get frustrated if I don't know how it comes together or if I don't see the bigger picture, and then... So, relax, keep calm, and carry on. That's really what it is.

Anna:
Have some faith.

Talvi:
Have some faith, yeah.

Anna:
Try things you haven't tried before.

Talvi:
It's really strong advice. Kind off like, yeah, jump over the cliff. Have faith.

Anna:
So, what has been the response so far? Because I know you've shared it with people. When are you launching it officially full on?

Talvi:
So, it will be, the plan is now in the next two weeks. At the moment, I'm still gathering feedback to get some... Just really to do the fine tuning that it all is as ready as possible. And of course, it can be the question as well, how good is good. So, I've set myself a deadline of two weeks. And at the moment I'm testing them with various people. So, some of the stakeholders who I'd say sponsored the project in terms of money and the time. And then, of course, with the quality team who are then aware of the procedures to make sure that am I still aligned what I'm advising there. And then let me think, what was... Sorry, my colleagues just walked in, and now I've got the lost.

Anna:
[inaudible 00:34:53]. So, you're testing it. You're launching it in two weeks, and yeah.

Talvi:
Now I'm testing again with new learners because they are the best ones to try out because if it's making sense to them, was it challenging? I'm just waiting for their feedback now. So it's quite exciting. And then I will do the fine tuning, and then it's ready to go.

Anna:
I'm excited for you.

Talvi:
It's quite fun as well. Even though that... Like you said in the beginning, it's a one man show here, but at the same time for this project I got the ideas from the quality team, and I've done some voiceovers, and I used various colleagues with various accents. So, I have actually a lot of people in this project, even though they perhaps don't even see that they are that much involved than they are. So, it's really nice team effort as well in that sense.

Anna:
Actually, I'm glad you brought that up because I never considered it that way. I always say, "Oh, you're a one person's solo team,' but you've brought in so many people to make this real and contextual, and all the people with accents, and the characters that you've developed are so... I love them. One of them has a Polish accent by the way. It's so fun.

Talvi:
Okay. This is funny, but actually probably this person is from Moldova. It's not the Polish lady. But we have a very international team, and it was a really advantage to have all these accents, and there was a funny thing as well. So, one of the characters did not quite have the right accent. So I had the person from a different nation trying to put the effort in to get the accent right. It was so good. I think that was the fun part of it. So, it was good.

Anna:
That's really authentic. I think that's one of the things, especially when you're... That's one of the challenges. That's the context you bring in is that you will encounter people that you can't understand necessarily, or don't speak the same dialect, right?

Talvi:
Yeah.

Anna:
That's so good that you could do that. Because you're listening too, right?

Talvi:
It is. And it's not that you cannot always get the high level of the language you are speaking. Plus over the phone, you can have different... Difficulties on them connection or, yeah. So, I think I was very happy to have all these accents coming in, and it was great to do it as well. We had quite fun with recording it, and also my colleagues, I just say, "Hey, I'm doing this. Can I borrow your voice?" And all of them were like, "Yeah, sure." Without actually even knowing what I'm going to do with their voice. [crosstalk 00:37:38]. You could just go with the blind trust here.

Anna:
That's awesome. Oh, man. That's fantastic. I'm really excited for you to launch this, and I hope people see it, and see how much, not only just you don't care about all the work that you put in as long as it goes out there has impact, right?

Talvi:
I think I enjoyed it a lot, but I also got a lot of support from you. I must say, it was... So, when we had the talks later on as well after the content was over, and when it came to the work. And then I could ask you, "What's the best approach? Could that work out?" I must say, I got a lot of motivation from you. And I think that's where the peer support is coming in or the buddy system is coming in as well. So, it was actually, yeah. Now coming back to your previous question, so when I said that I took the notes, and I watched the recordings, but actually you really filled in the buddy part here as well. I think that was not only the technical expertise, but quite often emotional side. And so, I think that's important. That really kept me going. And then, yeah, so it was... Thank you very much. [crosstalk 00:39:02].

Anna:
It was a pleasure.

Talvi:
It's been hard work, but it's been supported a lot, and it's been fun, and yeah, and the accents.

Anna:
It was awesome. Yeah.

Talvi:
Yeah.

Anna:
Thank you so much. I hope you guys got a lot of value from that. The fact that this is a journey, and it takes time to produce quality work. But gosh, when you invest your time and you commit it's done. [crosstalk 00:39:26]. So, this is awesome. Thank you so much, Talvi.

Talvi:
Thank you.